Ben Niles’ documentary, Note by Note: The Making of Steinway L1037 opens for a two-week run at Film Forum starting this Wednesday, November 7. A couple of days before the film’s theatrical debut, I sat and talked with first-time film director, Niles, and Jim Browne of Argot Pictures. Browne recently came on board the project to assist Niles in the marketing and distribution phase of his award-winning film. Browne’s company falls a bit outside the traditional distribution approach for most low-budget, independent films. The driving ethos, for even the smallest and most specialized of films, is to set up a limited-engagement, national theatrical release. Different from the straight-to-DVD or online sales models a lot of houses offer filmmakers, Browne believes that a theatrical run works to increase the value of a film for future broadcast and DVD sales, and tasks the filmmaker with being a full partner in the launch of the film. So, add yet another year of travel and Q&As and outreach to this already years-long endeavor and, as Niles is in the midst of doing, try and figure out how to start another project.

We talked about the overwhelming amount of work a filmmaker faces once the film is in the can and has played its festival circuit. Niles, who also produced the film (read: was the chief financier), is an award-winning graphic designer with many photo shoots, videos, commercials and print campaigns under his belt. But, as he told me, he really had no idea how much work and how much time and effort this film would take. So, a bit daunted, but very excited by the prospect of playing in theaters across the country, Niles and Browne spoke with me about the marketing and distribution launch phase of a film’s life cycle:

Renew Media (RM): At what point in your process did you think about how you would distribute and exhibit this film?

Ben Niles (BN): I probably didn’t seriously start thinking about that until we started to get some recognition. We premiered at the Hamptons Film Festival last year, and at that stage, it wasn’t like we had several people waiting in the wings. But I did realize that the film would at least have a festival life. People would approach me and tell me that it was a no-brainer for PBS and the like, in terms of broadcast, which made me feel great. But, as far as theatrical, I was still working independently and just trying to get to the next step which meant trying to get into bigger festivals, and hoping that if we managed to do that, that a theatrical distributor would take notice. But no, I didn’t really have a formal gameplan. Film Forum agreed to take the film and, of course, that was a big day for us. I knew from that point forward, that there were more possibilities for us, but honestly, I was still thinking that the run at Film Forum might be it.

RM: For your next film, knowing what you know now, do you suppose that you would you think more about this stuff at the beginning?

BN: I’ll tell you what I would think about more, and that I am thinking about more right now in terms of making another documentary, and that’s funding. This one was pretty much self-funded and it’s made things difficult. So, I’m not really willing to do that again. Before I even put a tape in the camera, I’m going to make sure that I have incredible access, which I think is going to get me some funding. Or, that I have some funding in place based on a written proposal. It’s very difficult to get the money in place before you’ve even shot a minute of footage because everyone wants to see something. If there’s something that I can do that’s cost-effective, then I’ll shoot 5 – 10 hours to have something to show. So to be perfectly honest, thinking about distribution for my next film is not even on my radar. It really does all come down to funding. So many people told me that this was such a fundable film. And the grant-givers to which we applied said the same thing. So we didn’t get those grants because they felt it was such a fundable film! I think it’s tricky when you make a film about a company, even though this film is not about Steinway; it’s about the making of a piano and the people who craft it. But on the surface, you’re asking for money and people ask why they should give money to a film that’s promoting a company? Raising money was really difficult because of that perception—that it was more of a promotion piece for Steinway. People wanted to know why Steinway wasn’t paying for this or kicking in some money. We didn’t want their money. It’s not a commercial for the company.

RM: Jim, when did you come on board Note by Note?

Jim Browne (JB): Just a little over a month ago.

RM: Your company works on the premise that a theatrical run plays a key part in distributing and exhibiting an independent film.

JB: My background is mostly theatrical programming for such places as the Pioneer where I booked films for many years. I also worked for a company called Plexifilm, a DVD distributor, and that’s where I first started doing theatrical bookings around the country. My first experience was booking a documentary called Moog about the synthesizer. A few years ago, I started my own company because I found I had so many filmmakers in my life and found myself helping a filmmaker friend try and get a distribution deal, figuring out ways to get another friend’s film out into the world, helping people put two and two together to figure out the next step. And I had established relationships with several theaters at which I had worked and knew a lot of people from being around New York all these years. So Argot sort of evolved organically, project by project. When I had Street Fight, which was nominated for an Oscar, that helped get things solidified and I started getting calls.

Ben’s film came to me through Peter Broderick. He told me about it while we were up in Toronto. When I watched the film, I just said, “Yes!”

BN: Peter’s at the center of the universe. He’s a connector. When you asked me how I’d do my next project differently, I’d get Peter in the loop a lot sooner. Not only did he steer us in the right direction, we learned a lot from him along the way. He’s got a lot to offer. And he’s very passionate about what he believes in. Every time I’d get off the phone with him, I would think, “Okay! I’ve got a little more direction.” Just from a professional point of view, every time the conversation digressed a bit, delved into more personal issues or if I were just beating one thing into the ground, he’d say, “Okay, let’s stay on task, here.” I mean he does charge by the minute–he kept having to remind me of that!

RM: Jim, are you distributing mostly documentaries? At first glance, your site seems to be very documentary-heavy. Why is that?

JB: From a strictly business point-of-view, it’s been much easier to market and distribute documentary films. Theaters aren’t willing to take a chance on narrative features that have no name actors in them. I see little indies all the time that are really strong, well-made movies, but they don’t have the cash to take out the kind of advertising you would need to drive audiences to the theater, or they don’t have any kind of recognizable talent.

RM: Well, there are no “names” in documentary, and a lot of times they’re almost impossible to market. So what’s the difference?

JB: Unlike in narrative films, what a documentary usually brings is partnerships with nonprofits, NGOs and other activist organizations that can be a great ally in getting the word out about the film–it’s hugely effective. China Blue, which I’ve been working on since last January, has been partnered with many Chinese and international human rights organizations, groups that had causes closely affiliated with those of the film and were meaningful to their missions. They’ll work quite diligently to get people out to the theater. With an indie narrative film, you don’t have that built in. It’s a whole other animal, trying to get people in theater seats, to go out and buy tickets to something that’s only showing in a theater, especially here in New York City. And honestly, I’m not at the point yet where I can put up cash for something or help out a penniless filmmaker, which most of them are at that point. I can tell from my experience throughout the years that something like Street Fight would be so much easier to market.

RM: Ben, did you have a specific audience in mind when making your film? Was it music lovers, piano aficionados, did you think about that at all? Did you come to Jim with some kind of idea in mind of who your audience is and where to find it?

BN: Peter called me and told me to call Jim. We’d already played at several festivals and I started to get a clearer idea of who was connecting to the film.

RM: But a festival audience is a very particular one, don’t you think? I mean to say, it’s probably not your average movie-goer, Joe General Public.

BN: That’s true. But what I was noticing at festivals was that we would get audiences from time to time that were from the community and weren’t really festival savvy, necessarily. Maybe they skewed a bit older. We’d reach out to these [piano] dealers and say, “Hey, let your customers know that this film is playing in their community right now.” These were the piano aficionados, lovers of classical music, etc. And I was encouraged by seeing people my age or younger [Ben appears to be in his late thirties] who, maybe, didn’t even play the piano. And they’d tell me how surprised they were, surprised at how much more emotional the film is than they thought it was going to be. So, if we can get past the obvious demographic (of which there are many, by the way, and a great audience to have), and get the word out past that, the film will definitely have great success.

RM: So how do you do that? How do you make that happen–strategy, voodoo?

JB: We’ve been talking to Steinway and encouraging them to get involved, to get the dealerships involved, having them hold receptions, getting the word out to their customer base, getting the Steinway artists involved to, perhaps, play live after screenings in an attempt to draw people out to the theaters.

BN: They’re talking about taking the piano out “on tour” [in conjunction with the film’s release]. That would be great.

JB: Schools are another great resource, the educational market.

BN: We’re starting with the major cities, and then, we’ll see. We need to establish a foothold first and then branch out from there.

JB: From what I know from my other experiences with documentaries is that this is a film that’s going to review very well.

RM: Well, what those reviews will recognize, hopefully, is that it’s a very beautiful film and reflects that beauty in its subject, which is also a finely crafted, vital entity by the end of the movie. It’s a film about craftspeople that is very well-crafted. That was very apparent to me when I watched it.

Jim, I know you get a good deal of submissions. And I’m sure that you get films where you’re pretty sure you can market them successfully, but you take a pass, anyway. What’s the defining factor for you in order to take a project on?

JB: Again, it’s a response, a feel for something. I mean I put a lot of my energy into this, there’s not a lot of money in this right now, I really have to be inspired to spend all the time and energy I do on these projects. Peter Broderick was raving about it, and so I took a look at it as soon as I got back–his is an opinion I hold in high regard. But it’s also the personal factor that’s also key. I need to meet the filmmaker, in person, first before I take on anything and take the temperature of who they are. Whether I can deal with someone or not is a big part of it. All those factors go into it. It’s not your traditional business arrangement. I don’t know how to put my finger on what the x factor is. It also depends on how many and what other kinds of projects I’m working on and what I think I can comfortably handle. I mean, Ben came to me already having an invitation to open his film at Film Forum. That’s pretty big.

RM: How did that come about?

BN: We sent them a DVD and it came to the attention of [programmers] Mike Maggiore and Karen Cooper. [Later in the interview, Niles clarifies that Note by Note came to Film Forum through his sales agent, at the time, Cinetic Media. The head of Cinetic, John Sloss, sits on the board of Film Forum.]

We were only slated for one week. I had a meeting with them several months ago and the next day—I still don’t know what I said—they called and said that they were going to extend the run to two weeks. That, in itself, was exciting for us, particularly since it’s not that common. I think we would be there longer if it wasn’t for Todd Haynes. [Haynes’ movie I’m Not There will be opening on two screens at Film Forum.] I’m half-joking. [laughs] But whatever happens at Film Forum, it’s their reputation that will definitely carry us forward. And honestly, I was initially surprised that they were going to take a chance. But it’s really started to open doors for us. We’re just hoping for success this week and next. We’ll see if Jim’s job can get a little easier.

RM: Why the push still for a theatrical exhibition, particularly for a documentary?

JB: It adds tremendous creative and financial value to future DVD or broadcast sales. That’s really where you’re going to make the bulk of your money. Most of the films I put out make virtually no money in theaters. But something like Summer Camp which was out this past summer, is still playing theatrically. It’s garnered fantastic reviews, but has made no money. But the film’s out in all these markets and it’s been reviewed in almost every major city. When they finally make their DVD sales after its broadcast on the Sundance Channel, it’s been out there, people have read about it.

RM: It’s a known entity.

JB: It’s kind of a dress rehearsal for your DVD debut where you’ve really got to do some business to help recoup your investment. But hopefully, a film’s theatrical run will go beyond that and I think this film has that kind of potential.

BN: I do enjoy seeing the audience’s reaction. That’s the best indicator I have, as a filmmaker, that I’ve connected with people. We did have many festivals pass on this film. But then we’d get to go to Silverdocs where you play in a 400-seat theater. But I was so uncertain about how things were going to go. We went to Sarasota before Silverdocs and won Best Documentary Feature there. But then, I was confused as to why we weren’t in these other festivals that turned us down. So I was getting a really strong reading from the audience, but a very mixed reception from the festival programmers. I couldn’t figure out what direction the film was supposed to go. I think I was hoping for more validation from the industry and was surprised when most of that validation came from audiences. And then the Film Forum invitation came and I thought that it really didn’t matter what other festivals we played or didn’t play!

JB: People come to me after their festival runs, generally. I’m also a festival programmer [for Tribeca Film Festival], so I’m on that side of things, too. There are so many factors as to what gets programmed at a festival. Some festivals, like the one for which I work, are somewhat obsessed with premieres and first-runs, so something that’s already premiered in the Hamptons–the desire to program it might be more lukewarm because of that. I don’t, personally, agree with that way of doing things, but these festivals support films in their own way. It mystifies me why Note by Note wouldn’t have gotten picked up by more festivals.

BN: But the film’s now about to play in several cities nationwide—between 40 and 50 at the end of the day.

JB: Well, there’s where the tricky part comes in. Most filmmakers want to have their year on the festival circuit, even if I’m offering an opportunity for a theatrical opening shortly after the film is completed. But then, what filmmakers don’t realize, is that now, a year later, it’s an “older” film and much more difficult to market and exhibit in a first-run house. A filmmaker can travel the world with his or her film and come back and still not have any kind of distribution deal or any theatrical rights, the film’s getting older by the minute and there’s too much glut out there for it to compete with newer product.

RM: Well, I guess what it comes down to is the initial goal—is the goal to sell the film? Is the goal to make your investment back? Like Ben, if you have a self-funded film, as passionate and emotionally invested as you were making the film, I think you went into it, too, as some sort of business proposition, to be able to at least recoup your investment. It’s not a big surprise that the number one thing that confuses filmmakers the most is what’s going to benefit them the most in thinking about their distribution scenario. It’s not always money-driven, I think we all get that. And festivals are quite insular and don’t purport to be markets where people buy and sell. It’s an exhibition, not an auction.

BN: That afternoon, before the awards ceremony [at Sarasota], I heard from Sky Sitney [head programmer] from Silverdocs congratulating me on being selected by the festival. That was quite a day.

RM: And the IDA has recognized you as a nominee for a brand new award, the Alan Ett Music Documentary Award. [The IDA will have its annual awards ceremony in Los Angeles on December 7.]

BN: Being new to filmmaking, this is a project on which I learned a lot. I mean, in all honesty, even at the beginning of shooting this project, I was still trying to figure out things like the white balance on the camera. But, it was the idea of this handcraftsmanship, the idea of old versus new that really hit me. It wasn’t just the music part of it. I left the factory that first time feeling like I was never going to see anything like that again, ever, not in this day and age. And I felt strongly that it needed to be documented. I was very nervous pretty early on for a couple of reasons, one being that there was so much technical information; I was really puzzled as to how I was going to show that without making a four-hour documentary. I didn’t want to make a how-to film. I definitely wanted to have that deep emotional connection.

I read this article in The New Yorker about a woman by the name of Erica Feidner who is called “The Matchmaker.” You could talk to her over the phone about the music you liked, and she would write down on a piece of paper what piano she thought you would pick based on what you told her, just based on your likes and dislikes. And she’d pretty much always be right—that’s the instrument they would choose. That’s when I thought about the fact that no two Steinways are the same—there’s one for every person. Erica’s not in the film but we interviewed her extensively, and that’s when the idea of the famous piano artists coming in to talk about their relationships with their instruments became important. And as soon as we did that, it became so apparent that people have such strong affection and deep feelings for these instruments—how personally meaningful they are. But then I had to figure out how the film would end. Where’s “our” piano going to go? Is it going to go to a showroom in Cincinnati? Because that might not have made for such a great ending. But we did, ultimately, get lucky in that regard, too.

RM: To me, the graceful editing really contributed enormously to that emotional resonance. You have very subtle reveals throughout, and then the major one at the end. It’s cut so effectively that when L1037 is finished, it looks like one of the most beautiful things I’ve ever seen; it was something that was alive and almost sentient, which is a weird thing to say about an inanimate object.

JB: I, too, had never thought about any of this and also was pretty blown away when I saw the film. I’m a long-time music aficionado and lover and it’s as important to me as film is. Seeing what goes into this and how each instrument is different were things I had never considered before. Once you get outside who the obvious audience might be, you really do realize it appeals to just about anyone.

BN: Everyone says that—that they weren’t expecting what they experienced when watching the film. And I do think that word-of-mouth excitement is going to be our biggest asset in terms of hooking people in and getting them to the theater.

JB: And getting those Steinway artists to appear in conjunction with the film will be a tremendous value-added component to that experience. That could be a serious magnet for a lot of people—an opportunity to see and hear these brilliant musicians play live.

BN: I’d love to see busloads of kids coming in and being inspired. The schools are such an amazing source to tap into—not just for ticket sales. Steinway is reaching out to a lot of the teachers’ associations and things like that.

One scene that really resonates strongly with people is the scene with the mother and father who are buying their young son a Steinway to continue the musical tradition of the grandfather. And maybe it’s because we all know that we’re sort of losing that that makes it a little sad for all of us. These days, you go to a party or over to someone’s house and the football game’s on the television in one corner, the music’s just for background noise and everybody just stands around. No wonder we get bored.

One of the things that Peter said in our very first conversation, which sort of turned the light bulb on for me, was that this film is not a film anymore; it’s a job. He told me I needed to look at it as my job. It means I get up every morning and go to work, and that work is this film. It’s done, it’s cut; that creative process is over. This is a job now. And he’s right. And as soon as I made that adjustment in thinking about this project, that’s what I did. And I was able to let go of everything that had come before. Not totally, of course, but I did manage to look at it as more of a black and white thing and do what the job entails from getting our postcards done to delivering posters to the theater.

And Jim’s already got us in about twelve cities and depending on how we do at Film Forum, this is another very busy phase of all this. I’m very excited.

JB: Do you have any of those smaller posters with you, Ben? There are some places in my neighborhood where I can put those up.

To see the film’s trailer and to buy tickets for Note by Note at Film Forum, click here.